Protection/Apotropaic markings in Mines

Tangent_Tracker

Tangent_Tracker

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So, since learning of this fascinating subject area, I have decided to try to log all the examples I can find.
I know there are examples at Wookie Hole and one or two other sites underground that have been studied to some extent, and I have now found two isolated examples in Derbyshire, which I personally can't really see as being anything else!

It is important not to confuse the VV with a W, which is often found as initials, (link to our site with a small article https://www.derbyscc.org.uk/alderley/history_apotropaic_marks.php) it does seem it was common to use this form in the 17thC and later in initials etc..

And while an isolated W does not mean it is definitely Apotropaic, there is a fairly good chance it is, as found in many old buildings / castles and the like!

Just wondering if others have spotted interesting marks/graffiti on their travels?

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Thanks to my compadrae for snapping this one for me at an undisclosed location (Above).

Another mine, this time Old Jant below where you can see an example of two W's, but then an isolated example toward the end. In this case they are different styles!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bFGENGwJ4wTpJjMo8

I have generally passed these onto a chap who studies and has made some progress with Apotropaic markings within the architectural world (sadly quite difficult amongst historians/, especially where taper burns are concerned! It's a fascinating subject!
Here is a very good article by James on the subject.

triskeleheritage.triskelepublishing.com

Mediaeval Mythbusting Blog #2: The Problem of “Witchmarks” - Triskele Heritage

24 October 2020 As Hallowe’en approaches many of us are wondering if the annual fright season can be any more terrifying than 2020 itself? However, this is genuinely my favourite holiday – I’m very partial to a bit of rock’n’roll and Hallowe’en is like Christmas for rockers. For one night of the...
triskeleheritage.triskelepublishing.com triskeleheritage.triskelepublishing.com
 
And just to add, there is also the whole subject of miners boots, and possible even pipes, which I am sure Riewerts referred to as fairy pipes or similar in his glossary of terms...?

I have even found a very early button pressed into clay at the top of a climbing shaft, was this put there for luck?
 
That's the clay rings you're thinking of, there were quite a few found during the exploration of Old Millclose in undisturbed areas. I think Jim mentioned the leaving of a single old clog or boot as luck for any future miners, I'd have to go back and check his source for that though.

I recall Steve Tucker found similar marks, though the other way up , forming "M M" when he was looking at Old Beck Mine near Sheldon - can't remember if he posted about that on Mine Explorer or contacted me directly though and I was always sceptical about them being possible apotropaic marks due to the likely date of the workings (later 18th/early 19th century), but if there's good evidence for them still being used that late elsewhere in the country I'd certainly reconsider that opinion.
 
AR. said:
That's the clay rings you're thinking of, there were quite a few found during the exploration of Old Millclose in undisturbed areas. I think Jim mentioned the leaving of a single old clog or boot as luck for any future miners, I'd have to go back and check his source for that though.

I recall Steve Tucker found similar marks, though the other way up , forming "M M" when he was looking at Old Beck Mine near Sheldon - can't remember if he posted about that on Mine Explorer or contacted me directly though and I was always sceptical about them being possible apotropaic marks due to the likely date of the workings (later 18th/early 19th century), but if there's good evidence for them still being used that late elsewhere in the country I'd certainly reconsider that opinion.
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That's the thing, In James' article above, I don't think he rules out later Apotropaic markings but they are far less common. Maybe their use held on in some areas, a bit like the wonderful gravestones you get in Scotland! Just to add, whilst folks in general may not have been as scared by the supernatural as their forbearers, in mines it could have been quite a different matter, but of course this is all guesswork.
I have also heard of inverted cases, it could be in a mine that had another use as a marker. I do find it odd if it is isolated from any other inscriptions though!?

Incidentally I did send James the example of the Gentlewoman's, and while he did not want to say that was a definite, he could not see nor think of any other reason for it either!

And yes we found a single boot in our latest dig at Alderley, and I have seen a couple of examples at mines in Derbyshire. The overseeing archeologist wouldn't hear of it being a lucky symbol and suggested they were cheap enough to throw away o_O However, archeologists in general are quite reluctant to stick their neck out without hard evidence I guess, and it's still a very touchy subject amongst some.

Regards the clay circles, I'll have to check that again!

Ta.
 
I think this was the Chaldon trip that photo was taken during. I look out for them a bit more now.

 
Co-incidentally I had never heard of these markings until earlier this week when I learned of them from the book "Surrey's Ancient Stone Mines" by "Quarryman".

Will keep looking out for them now.

Chris.
 
Just dug out Jim's glossary of Derbyshire lead mining terms to look up fairy rings and it seems fairy pipes were a thing too: "clay pipes foun in old workings, suppose to have been smoked by knockers or similar mine spirits". I'm guessing these were very old, small clay pipes (late 16th/early 17th century) that later miners found that gave rise to the belief. There's an old PDMHS bulletin paper on mine superstitions but it's a bit short on source citations, unfortunately - https://pdmhs.co.uk/MiningHistory/Bulletin 5-3 - Folklore and Superstition in Mines.pdf
 
I have found lots of single boots / shoes from mines that shut around 1908-1945.52904775742_e00b2b5d51_o-compressed.jpeg52749237072_935d8b20af_o-compressed.jpeg I have found a couple of pairs. Clay pipes yes a couple but mostly bone , with very ornate engravings .

The placing of the boots never signified nothing to myself , I always have assumed the worker carried his new pair inside and changed them, leaving the old behind . I no they had to pay for everything themselves in these mines , I have got captures of all the original bills etc . 53073623938_d9394c66ea_o-compressed.jpeg53072319591_85f794bf6f_o-compressed.jpeg


& a wild card the oldest style lamp I have ever found , forgot the scale so had to improvise . 53118352223_28ae708611_o-compressed.jpegThen again the amount of spirits our miners drank, they wouldn’t have knew they forgot there boots !
 
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Wow, some lovely finds there! It would seem odd for a miner to take some boot in and then put his new ones on. It has to be a traditional/luck based thing!
 
I'll have a look through some of my stuff when I get chance but I'm fairly sure either Nellie Kirkham or Jim Rieuwerts were told by the old lead miners they were acquainted with that it was the practice to leave one boot or clog behind when closing a mine to give luck to any future miners working it.

As for your archaeologist, I think he was too afraid of the old cliche in archaeology that anything you find but can't understand the purpose of is described as "probably ritual", but we need to remember that boots and clogs weren't cheap items to a working man 100+ years ago and you could get them fixed easily enough so you didn't throw them away lightly.
 
I'd always just assumed they were working boots left in the mine and the miners changed into 'outside' boots to return home at the end of the day. I've done similar when working mucky jobs.
 
Ttxela said:
I'd always just assumed they were working boots left in the mine and the miners changed into 'outside' boots to return home at the end of the day. I've done similar when working mucky jobs.
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If you get to your working place and your feet are soaking wet from the walk up the drainage adit must be nice to have a dry pair to change into
 
AR. said:
I'll have a look through some of my stuff when I get chance but I'm fairly sure either Nellie Kirkham or Jim Rieuwerts were told by the old lead miners they were acquainted with that it was the practice to leave one boot or clog behind when closing a mine to give luck to any future miners working it.

As for your archaeologist, I think he was too afraid of the old cliche in archaeology that anything you find but can't understand the purpose of is described as "probably ritual", but we need to remember that boots and clogs weren't cheap items to a working man 100+ years ago and you could get them fixed easily enough so you didn't throw them away lightly.
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Exactly my point! Surely the old man would have had a very good outcome from the mine, or they were perhaps ready to hang their boots up when the time came. We are talking about a world of make-do and mend, afterall!
 
Helen W said:
If you get to your working place and your feet are soaking wet from the walk up the drainage adit must be nice to have a dry pair to change into
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Quite possible, but would it have really bothered them that much back in the day? Perhaps! We also do know it was a real thing in houses, cats, boots, and other parafanalia were left in walls to either ward off spirits or bring luck etc...

I would argue that when found in pairs, but there are plenty of examples where single boots or non matching boots are found together.

The little bit of old man you use to be able to access in a certain modern working had a pair next to an old tub, in that case I would suggest it could be either!
 
I wonder if when an old miner (or younger one?) left this world, was there a sentiment to place some relevant personal item in the mine as some kind of tribute or recognition for his efforts there? Probably not, but rather like our diggers' wellies, maybe it was a "thing" for some? Maybe an item of clothing, or a tool? This is nothing more than pure speculation on my part.
 
They have got some good tread left ! View my equipment thread regarding wellies !
 
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